DAVID SCHENKMAN INTERVIEW, PART SIX

Greg Bennick: Yeah, it really is just the fascination and the fun and just following your own lead in a way. I know that when counterstamps first came into my reality and I acquired my first couple of pieces by a druggist from Sacramento whose last name was Polhemus, and I got really interested in this guy's counterstamps and bought a couple of them and then started thinking, hmm, maybe I'm going to collect specifically things that I can connect to a historical person. And then your mind starts going and you go down that avenue and it's just fascinating and fun.

David Schenkman: And you can still make finds. See your Polhemus counterstamp, the mention of that, reminds me of one I had on a $20 gold piece.

Greg Bennick: Please tell us the story. It's going to make my day.

David Schenkman: Well I guess in the late seventies, a good friend of mine who owned a coin shop in Virginia picked up a Polhemus counterstamp on a $20 gold piece. And I said, ‘What are you going to do with it?' And he said, ‘Well, I'll probably offer it for $300.' At the time, low grade twenties were selling for around 150. I said, Well I'll buy it, Joe. So I bought the piece and I started writing a column for The Numismatist in the late seventies, which I did for a couple of years back then, and that was the subject of my first counterstamps. So John Ford called me up shortly after that and told me he was going to do me a favor and take it off my hands for $750. And I declined, which didn't make him very happy. So, when I had it for a few years and I was setting up at a coin show in Philadelphia and the dealer that I bought the piece from was at the next table. Ray Byrne, who was a good friend, he was a very advanced collector of counterstamps, among other things, from Pittsburgh, came up to me and he said, I want to buy your Polhemus counterstamp. I said, I don't want to sell it, and he kept badgering me. And finally, the guy I won't mention his name, who I bought it from, came up to me, he said, Don't be a jerk, Schenkman, but put a price on it. I said, Okay, Ray, $15,000. The dealer I bought it from the colors started going out of his head when Ray said, Well I'll take it. And so at that time it was a record price for any token. In fact, there was a half-page article in Coin World about it.

So, I didn't really want to sell it and so I quoted way more than I thought it was worth. And I told Ray, I said, Ray, I think you're crazy to buy it for that. I didn't have it with me and this was in the spring. I said, I'll tell you what, I'm coming to an ANA and you are too. If you decide you still want it, call me and I'll bring it, otherwise the deal's off and no hard feelings. Well, he called me and I brought it and he bought it.

So fast forward a few more years, Ray died and his whole collection came on the market, and I bought the collection intact with another dealer. So I owned half of it again. Then the dealer decided he wanted to be a counterstamp collector and bought out my half. A few years later, he put his whole collection at auction with Dave Bowers; Bowers and Morena, I guess it was at the time, and I was real curious. Dave wrote a whole page or a page and a half about this counterstamp, and I was very curious to see what it would do. And it ended up selling for around $11,000 plus the buyer's fee.

To me, the most fascinating part of the story is this, about two months after the sale, I got a phone call from a man who sounded like an elderly man, probably my age, probably younger and he said, Are you the person that had the Polhemus counterstamp? I said, Well, I did. Why do you ask? He said, Well, I was the person who bought it out of the auction. I said, Oh, well… sensing a customer and I had a copy of Polhemus counterstamps on silver coins. I said, Are you interested in other Polhemus counter stamps? He said, No. I said, Well, are you interested in any other counterstamps? And he said, No. And I said, Well, why did you buy this one? He said, I was so intrigued with the write up in the catalog that I decided I would like to own it. I said, Well, how did you know what to pay? And he said, I had no idea. He said I couldn't attend the sale, so I had a friend bid it for me. I told him not to go over $20,000. So here was a man that knew nothing about it, wasn't a collector. And yet he was willing to pay $20,000 based on the write up.

Greg Bennick: That is so great.

David Schenkman: And by the way, since then, I think three or four more of these counterstamps have turned up, some of them on these treasure ships that have been dredged up on the twenty-dollar gold pieces.

Greg Bennick: I was just about to say, if I had the chance to buy one, I don't know what I would do, depending on my financial situation at the time, but that's a fantastic story. I love the throughline of that piece being sold and sold again over the years. And I think I might be mistaken. I think there's three known on $20 gold pieces at this point.

David Schenkman: I believe one of them sold for close to $50,000 at an auction.

Greg Bennick: Sounds about right. Sounds certainly right to me. Well, this has been fantastic and I hope that you've enjoyed it David because I've had a great time talking with you today.

David Schenkman: Oh, very much.

Greg Bennick: Yeah, thanks so much for just sharing information on all of these different areas that people can explore. And I feel like this has been both biographical for you, but also informational in terms of what people can then do and then take after this interview to go explore and learn more to heighten their own awareness about some of these areas of numismatics. I appreciate it so much.

David Schenkman: Well, I'd just like to say that anybody with a serious interest, is more than welcome to email me and I'll be glad to try to help them answer that question if I can, or try to direct or point them in the right direction.

Greg Bennick: And if you like, you can say your email or I can print it on the page, whatever you prefer.

David Schenkman: I can be reached at my first initial dschenkman@verizon.net .

Greg Bennick: Well, I appreciate it. And to everybody listening, this is, as I mentioned at the beginning, a series of interviews. So this is going to be ongoing and there's an extensive list of folks that I plan to talk to. So if you've enjoyed this interview, you can listen to the other ones and watch the other ones. Some of them have a video component where I'm speaking to a live face. This one audio and all of these interviews will be on the Newman Numismatic Portal on my page there. So be sure to let people know about that. And thanks so much David Schenkman for spending some time with us today. I really appreciate.

David Schenkman: It was a pleasure.

About the Interviewer
Greg Bennick (www.gregbennick.com) is a keynote speaker and long time coin collector with a focus on major mint error coins. Have ideas for other interviewees? Contact him anytime on the web or via instagram @minterrors.

To watch the complete video, see:
David Schenkman Interview (https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/632911)

To read the complete transcript, see:
David Schenkman Interview (Transcript) (https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/632910)

To read the earlier E-Sylum articles, see:
DAVID SCHENKMAN INTERVIEW, PART ONE (https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n45a12.html)
DAVID SCHENKMAN INTERVIEW, PART TWO (https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n46a16.html)
DAVID SCHENKMAN INTERVIEW, PART THREE (https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n47a19.html)
DAVID SCHENKMAN INTERVIEW, PART FOUR (https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n48a23.html)
DAVID SCHENKMAN INTERVIEW, PART FIVE (https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n49a18.html)

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